1 - Would it already be possible to add some noise to a 3D object for example with a loop ?

Like I could set the noise to loop at 10 seconds and export a movie of for example 10 seconds. When I'd loop the movie the motion would smoothly loop infinite.

Did I miss a way to use the already built-in nodes to add some loop to Noise ? If not, what should the Feature Request be like ?

Like a Trapcode Mir example in .gif image below

2 - Note that the motion seem to move in a direction, like a ripple. And this is somehow a 2nd question, I tried combine Ripple 3D Object and Add Noise to 3D Object but even if loop was supported in Gradient, the Trapcode sample seem to displace with ripple or direction, the vertices move to a direction and seem to change position.

What other nodes or node modification should we need in order to achieve something similar to the Trapcode sample ?

I'm joining another Trapcode Sample somehow similar, here the motion is centered like a vortex in a torus. Also joining a composition as a start to recreate something similar.

Copyright to Trapcode - Peder Nordby for the movies.

Trapcode_lab_1456657680.mp4

Comments

Well, the upcoming GLSL stuff

jersmi's picture
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Well, the upcoming GLSL stuff will offer some shaped vertex noise opportunities (even though I'll be struggling with the shader language stuff for some time to come).

Or now you could use the MakeRuggedTerrain example to come much closer to your gif example, then you could have a lot of control over looping the displacement source image....

@jersmi thanks for the input

Bodysoulspirit's picture
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jersmi thanks for the input !

Well, the upcoming GLSL stuff will offer some shaped vertex noise opportunities (even though I'll be struggling with the shader language stuff for some time to come).

Ok. Yeah me neither. We'll see though.

Or now you could use the MakeRuggedTerrain example to come much closer to your gif example, then you could have a lot of control over looping the displacement source image....

Somehow a good idea to investigate, Displace with Image !

But still I wonder how we could combine 3D filters to

  • Displace with direction, like a ripple with noise.
  • Loop on a given time to make endless movies.

Or what changes or new filters could be added for these. I guess Displace with Image will work pretty well with plane surface, less with shaped 3D objects !

Thanks though !

This is a fun problem! Here's

jersmi's picture
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This is a fun problem! Here's what I meant by using Displace 3D Object with Image. As you mention, Bodysoulspirit, it would be nice to have some control over Add Noise to 3D Object (like a seeded version). However, this comp does create "ripple" effect and allow looping to create movies. Also, the node displaces the surface of a 3D Object, so not sure what you mean by only being good for planes?

@jersmi thanks ;)

Bodysoulspirit's picture
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jersmi thanks ;)

Here's what I meant by using Displace 3D Object with Image.

Nice sketch !

However, this comp does create "ripple" effect and allow looping to create movies.

But as Make Random Image or even Make Noise Image doesn't seem to allow a real loop (I may be miss something) you still have to wave the displace value in order to create a loopeable movie where it would loop at "No Displace". This doesn't allow smtg like Peder's GIF.

So not sure what you mean by only being good for planes ?

What I mean with plane objects is that 2D don't always map correctly on a 3D object. Take a torus for example, hard to map an image on it that would look good on all sides. This becomes visible if you rotate the 3D object in your composition (see modified comp below), the beginning and the end of the image become visible on the 3D object.

What I also like in Peder's gif is that the object vertices seem to really move in a direction. Don't know if this is for real or just an impression. Perhaps this could be faked wit the actual nodes by additionally spinning the 3D object.

The 1st Trapcode GIF have differences with the Second sample, the torus movie.
The first one seem to displace the vertices in a direction, with a noise + a loop.
The second one sets a noise what seem to be called "Multi Smooth Ridge Fractal" and then ripples the vertices in one direction only (called animate fractal offset Z). Guess there is a difference between the 2 techniques he's using.

So thanks Jerry for the ideas and composition ;) Guess some additional node improvements or node set could be easier though !

Guess some additional node

jersmi's picture
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Guess some additional node improvements or node set could be easier though !

Love to see them! What would you propose? Maybe something like Make Fractal Noise with seed and transform?

But as Make Random Image or even Make Noise Image doesn't seem to allow a real loop (I may be miss something) you still have to wave the displace value in order to create a loopeable movie where it would loop at "No Displace". This doesn't allow smtg like Peder's GIF.

Yep, Peder's evolving/moving cloud-like noise looks interesting.

Make Random Image works for looping because the noise has a seed (whereas Make Noise Image does not). So a mirrored loop using Curve with seed loops seamlessly. But it's still not as interesting as Peder's noise algorithm. Peder's is growing and shrinking as it moves, so it has to have some parameter animating somewhere. Essentially, this amounts to a curve over some displacement value. So yes, even with Make Random Image looping, it's not evolving because each seed is a new random image.

What I mean with plane objects is that 2D don't always map correctly on a 3D object.

Yeah, I guess have to set up some texture and unwrap the UV or something....

What I also like in Peder's gif is that the object vertices seem to really move in a direction.

I think that's an illusion. I see the examples as some interesting fractal-ish noise algorithm moving across the vertices, deforming/displacing as it goes. I think the torus example is essentially displacement with a fractal image.

Love to see them! What would

Bodysoulspirit's picture
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Love to see them ! What would you propose ?

Yeah that's the point ;) I don't know what to propose since I don't have a clue of the background OpenGL stuff ;) I'd say a Noise / Fractal with Directions (around the 3 axes) + an optional Loop
Don't know if it would be better as a single node or as a set. So that was a bit the reason of this discussion.

As written before, what I like with his "fractal' is that some parts are "noised" very thinly, like scaled to 0,1, and some parts bigger.
As the screenshots below show, combing 2 Add Noise to 3D Objects can get pretty much the same results.

Single Noise :

Combined Noises :

Just don't know how different "Fractal" could be from "Noise" as a node, nor if it would be GPU friendlier. Combining 2 nodes splits the FPS / 2 on my GPU (which has some bugs anyway so it a not a reference).

Make Random Image works for looping because the noise has a seed

Will check your sample again, thanks !.

I think that's an illusion. I see the examples as some interesting fractal-isa noise ...

Yes you may be very right !

Thanks

Whoa, cool new markup menu

jersmi's picture
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Whoa, cool new markup menu for posting! Exciting prospects for Vuo 1.3!

Anyway, I really do like this problem. :-)

Looking around on the Shadertoy site, found this one, created by Peder Norrby: https://www.shadertoy.com/view/4dd3Rl

And a clue to the type of noise functions he uses:

//
// Description : Array and textureless GLSL 2D/3D/4D simplex 
//               noise functions.
//      Author : Ian McEwan, Ashima Arts.
//  Maintainer : ijm
//     Lastmod : 20110822 (ijm)
//     License : Copyright (C) 2011 Ashima Arts. All rights reserved.
//               Distributed under the MIT License. See LICENSE file.
//               https://github.com/ashima/webgl-noise
// 

And George Toledo has an Ashima noise node in the Node Library.

@jersmi ;) Thanks will check.

Bodysoulspirit's picture
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jersmi ;) Thanks will check.

Peder is amazing ! Love his work ! Made only few Shadertoy but so much nice stuff on his Instagram and Twitter and Vimeo.
Definitely one of my mentors ;)

The great thing he is a one man company now a standard in the VFX industry.
The bad thing is Trapcode are AE plugins, therefore to output movies only ... Plus I hate all the render time thing ...

That's why I love Vuo ! So much more possibilities ! Apps, movies, compositions, alone or embedded in VJ apps or any other custom apps etc, all live and with inputs ! ... In Trapcode you can make a video based on sound with Soundkeys, but you have to reexport if for every song ... With Vuo you launch any song and wham ! Careless Whisper ;)

Vuo is not so trapped ;) Hope one day he'll come to make some nice stuff with Vuo too.

I already spoke with him about it, he said Vuo looked cool but finds it hard to know what software to spend time with.
But he definitely not only uses AE (Shadertoy is an example) so ... ;)

Trapcode plugins have truly

jersmi's picture
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Trapcode plugins have truly been some of the most beloved plugins for AE folks (me being one of them). I had not explored any info about the author, however. At the shadertoy site, I found it enlightening to get a glimpse how Mr. Trapcode might be thinking about his own work. As i head towards a bit of GLSL, I find the shadertoy community impressive. I went looking for "noise" and found the trapcode shader. It clicked because of your post, Bodysoulspirit -- very cool.

Some interesting compositions

jstrecker's picture
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Some interesting compositions and ideas already posted on this thread. Either Displace 3D Object with Image (possibly in conjunction with Vignette Image) or Add Noise to 3D Object could work. Here are a couple of demos with Add Noise to 3D Object.

5-second-loop.vuo — If you export a 5-second movie from this composition, it loops seamlessly. The way this is accomplished is with two Add Noise to 3D Object nodes. One has its time input offset to 5 seconds after the other's — noise #2 does the same thing as noise #1 but 5 seconds later. When the composition starts, noise #1 is at time=0 and amount=0, and noise #2 is at time=5 and amount=1. From 2 to 3 seconds after the composition starts, it crossfades from noise #2 to noise #1. At 5 seconds after the composition starts, noise #1 is at time=5 and amount=1, and noise #2 is at time=10 and amount=0. Since the 5-second rendering of the composition starts and ends with a noise at time=5 and amount=1, the first and last frame are identical.

scrolling-noise.vuo — This one makes the noise move across the object. It does this by transforming the object, applying the noise, and then un-transforming the object — so that the object moves through noise-space but doesn't move through scene-space.

Oh, a couple more things —

jstrecker's picture
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Oh, a couple more things —

You guys mentioned fractal noise. That's covered by the "multiple noise levels" (octaves) portion of feature request Extend "Make Noise Image" to support multiple noise levels, tiling, spherical mapping, and Voronoi noise.

Ashima's noise implementations are used in several Vuo nodes: Make Noise Image, Add Noise to 3D Object, Explode 3D Object, Frost Image, and Shade with Frosted Glass.

@jstrecker thanks for the

Bodysoulspirit's picture
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Jaymie

thanks for the compositions ! Cool !

5-second-loop.vuo

But I still wonder ! Could I still make a feature request to make this easier ? Some noise with seed or something ? So people could make some easy loop noise ?

scrolling-noise.vuo

Ok. The movement is not so obvious on the sphere, in just looks as if it is noising faster. Will try on another object. Thanks ! Still wonder if "directions" could be added to make this easier too !

You guys mentioned fractal noise. That's covered by the "multiple noise levels" (octaves) portion of feature request Extend "Make Noise Image" to support multiple noise levels, tiling, spherical mapping, and Voronoi noise.

But that FR is for "Make Noise Image" only right ? So for Displace with Image. Fractal Multiple Levels for Add Noise to 3D Object would still need at least 2 nodes right ? I can live with that though !

Thanks.

Scrolling-noise.vuo — This

Bodysoulspirit's picture
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Scrolling-noise.vuo — This one makes the noise move across the object. It does this by transforming the object, applying the noise, and then un-transforming the object — so that the object moves through noise-space but doesn't move through scene-space.

Shaded the spheres with wireframe and made the normal noise sphere move faster. But I can't see any difference between the 2.

Am I missing something ?

Joined Composition

Shaded the spheres with

jstrecker's picture
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Shaded the spheres with wireframe and made the normal noise sphere move faster. But I can't see any difference between the 2.

If you increase the Subdivisions on Make Icosphere, you should start to see the noise flowing downward.

But that FR is for "Make Noise Image" only right ?

Oh right. Though adding multiple noise levels to Add Noise to 3D Object should be fairly easy to build on top of that FR (similar GLSL code).

Could I still make a feature request to make this easier ? Some noise with seed or something ? So people could make some easy loop noise ?

What do you mean about noise with seed? (I'm not sure how a random seed would help here.) It would be good to make it easier somehow.

With the scrolling noise comp

jersmi's picture
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With the scrolling noise comp, leaving the time port disconnected on Add Noise to 3D Object might help clarify the idea of moving an object around in "noise space". Also, simply rotating an object in noise space has its own charm.