A node for transforming layers & objects without copying/combining. Useful with feedback and generating lists.

Component: 

Notes from Team Vuo

Vuo Pro: 

No — available with both Vuo and Vuo Pro licenses

Complexity: 

●○○○ — Up to a few days of work

Potential: 

●○○ — Appeals to current community

Implemented in Vuo version: 

Comments

Magneson, could you give an

jstrecker's picture
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Feature status:
Waiting for review by Team Vuo
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Waiting for more information from reporter

Magneson, could you give an example of how you'd use this node? I want to make sure I understand the need it would cover beyond the Combine Layers, Combine Layers with Transform, and Combine 3D Objects nodes, which output a parent layer/object that contains all of the input layers/objects as children. Does the fact that these nodes output a parent layer/object with children, as opposed to a flat list of layers/objects, sometimes get in the way? (Btw, none of these nodes make copies.)

I have tried a few feedback

MartinusMagneson's picture
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I have tried a few feedback scenarios where I've used the combine object/layer and it seems to duplicate itself infinitely. And yes, a flat/list output would be nice (but I guess that kind of defeats the purpose for a combine node). There are a few times I've been banging the head against the wall because there isn't any "direct access" to the objects/layers. I stumble across these things when building, and aren't always as good to take notes or store a separate version, but I'll try to keep that in mind in the future.

I'm attaching a composition that should in theory contain itself to 10 objects, but using the combine layer to move the object, some feedback magic happens, and it seems like it just fills up with duplicates until the composition crashes, although you can only see the 10 intended objects.

@MartinusMagneson hey

Bodysoulspirit's picture
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Magneson hey Martinus ;)

Don't want to mind with not my business ! Just trying to help some to reduce the team's work ;)

You may be right, could be a bug, but I'm not sure.
I have never noticed myself Combining Layers or 3D to copy themselves.
Guess your composition copies itself because of the Hold List and the Add and Cut lists.

Tried to debug your composition, but not always easy to understand the goal when not yours. What is the goal of this composition ?
You want to select an item in the list and move its X axis, then another in the list ? Or simultaneously ? Or recreate a new list with newly moved cubes on the X axis ?

@Bodysoulspirit, I don't

MartinusMagneson's picture
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Bodysoulspirit, I don't think it's a bug, I think it works the way it's supposed to. I also have a feature request somewhere to be able to set the maximum amount of objects to be created in a scene/layer combiner to deal with issues like this (this would be far easier than using a hold list approach as well, but I nevertheless feel it's more intuitive to have a transform only node instead of using a combine node).

The goal of the composition is to crash to demonstrate why it would be useful to have a transform only node for layers and objects. If my suspicions are correct, the combine node actually receives data to its transform list input, which again would double for every trigger from the Hold List. So at the time of the crash, you only see the same 10 boxes as expected, but in the background there are thousands (if not more) of layers inevitably causing it to crash once it doubles into a ridiculous amount.

Beyond the technical points

Bodysoulspirit's picture
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Beyond the technical points of this (I let Jaymie answer, sorry too technical for me ;)) I remember Steve's comment here, but would not be against some Transform 3D or Layer node neither because, even if it will add 2 nodes,

a - perhaps for some new users they would search the node library for a Transform 3D object node but will only find the Combine node. Not 100% obvious for new users.

b - when I use combine I tend to shrink the drawer to 1 input only, extra work ;)

Generally, are there any background plans not showing in the Feature Request list concerning Child / Parent things ?
Like some nodes that would combine as a flat list instead, or some methods to access childs ? Any global plans from the team about that yet ? I don't have any specific idea or request in mind right now, just remember I have wondered already when using Vuo about those things.

I've been meaning to Feature

useful design's picture
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I've been meaning to Feature Request or even learn C to attempt myself a node that can take an object or element in a list of co-ordinates and apply transformations about an anchor point or line of reflection. It didn't occur to me that it was not even easy to do a regular transform of an item in a list. I Probably need to play around and see what is current;y possible first before I add the detail I'm after to this FR, but basically I want nodes to execute rotations on 3D points (object vertex co-ordinates) using either a single point anchor (not just assuming the centre of the object for rotation which is current behaviour) or about a line, allowing 'reflection' transformations. I want to be able to fold objects in 3D about their edges.

Not sure if this current FR would include that possibility. It's kind of hard for me to specify the way I want to do this because Vuo doesn't allow easy access to objects in a scene once combined and doesn't have nodes like Triangle Family the way KinemeGL plugin allowed for, so would need to operate on a list of objects I suppose and be able to select one object in list and transform it using inputs for 1 2D point (simple 2D rotation) or 2 3D points or establish the 3D line of rotation about which all points would rotate (i.e. a matrix transformation). Plus an input for rotation degrees, or alternatively to save on extra nodes pretending it, a min angle , a max angle and [0-1] rotation amount input.

@useful design, regular

MartinusMagneson's picture
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Alastair, regular transform of objects/layers in a list can easily be done with the combine nodes, but it's not obvious that they present that feature. I thought I had an FR to access the individual vertices of an object, but couldn't find it now. I think that is closer to what you describe. It might also be accessible through the paradox node set.

Feature status

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  • Submitted to vuo.org
  • Reviewed by Team Vuo
  • Community voted
  • Scheduled for implementation
  • Released in Vuo 1.2.4