Status: 

Vuo version: 

OS version: 

  • macOS

CPU architecture: 

Intel x86_64

How severely does this bug affect you?: 

●●○○ — It's annoying but I can work around it.

Steps causing the bug to occur: 

  1. create composition which uses shadertoy node in a graph that can evaluate, and run composition
  2. click in fragment shader input port
  3. fragment shader code editor appears, but tooltip with readout of entire fragment shader code also seems to always appear

Have you found a workaround?: 

I have not found a workaround.

Other notes: 

I would expect to have to "hover" above a port in order to trigger a tooltip to render. I would also expect that if a tooltip was triggered by accidentally hovering over a port, that it would disappear after briefly displaying. But even though I am not hovering the cursor, and have clicked into the port, the tooltip persistently renders. When I attempt to close the tooltip by clicking in the top left corner of the tooltip display window, it immediately spawns again.

This bug has been around for several versions of VUO, possibly as long as this node has existed. In earlier cases this bug would seem to drag down evaluation of the graph and prevent code entry. Now those side effects do not seem to occur, making it more of a nuisance level bug than a show stopper.

I have not specified that this bug is limited to the shadertoy node in the summary title, because I have not done testing to rule out other nodes.

Comments

was just experiencing this

useful design's picture
Submitted by

was just experiencing this for the first time in the last 24 hours. can confirm.

my workaround was to generate the tooltip, click on it to make it permanent and then drag it well away from the ShaderToy node to another part of the canvas. then click on the first input port to generate the ShaderToy text editing "popup" modal dialogue box and work on the code with the tooltip popup well away and not covering it over.

True. Annoying but not the

Bodysoulspirit's picture
Submitted by

True. Annoying but not the worst.

Not sure what you mean with In earlier cases this bug would seem to drag down evaluation of the graph and prevent code entry but for long code entries, I still encounter the fact that the shader code editor appears too high on the screen, without being able to move it down, making it impossible to access the top part of the code (see screenshot).
A different bug though.

I guess the code editor should come in another way, be draggable and perhaps like the tooltips / port popups, be able to pin it open and close it (instead of closing automatically when clicked outside of it).

And as you pointed out, the fact that a whole big tooltip pops up that is too long to be read entirely leads me to wish for Scrollable Port Popups. I remember long tooltips to only show a preview that was truncated, not great either, so I really hope for a truncated preview by default, with an arrow to allow to develop and scroll through the rest.

I think on a daily basis I encounter several such smaller bugs in Vuo like the tooltip being rendered beside the code editor, that can annoy, but I still don't upload them because I prefer the team to work on adding new features :)
Still of course uploading the bigger bugs that really prevent work to be done.

i know what you mean about

useful design's picture
Submitted by

i know what you mean about not logging minor bugs and minor FR. lots of the existing FR i decided not to post in the early days of Vuo 1.n because it seemed like there were bigger fish to fry.

but the counter argument is that @TeamVuo might be working on a part of the code that is very close to the bug and be able to fix it while they’re close to it, saving time in the long run.

and if it’s bugs affecting the UI/UX i for one always judge software i use on the depth of thought and polish put into their UI/UX. it’s why i’ve disliked M$ for so many years and resent it when i have to use Office to fit in with my organisation or whatever.

in my opinion getting little bugs out is a marketing investment and an indication to Vuo customers and prospectives that they value quality work. there’s lots of things about Vuo that exude quality. like the refresh rate in shadertoy rendering even when my MbP fans are blowing with ect 4K display and lots of apps open it doesn’t skip a beat. very nice. Vuo has become pretty stable for the little bits of playing i’m doing in it atm.

Well, how about having them

George_Toledo's picture
Submitted by

Well, how about having them not pop up when not triggered?

I am literally not doing the user interaction required to typically call up a tooltip. So, suppressing the tooltip in all cases seems to not address the bug.

Also, looking through this

George_Toledo's picture
Submitted by

Also, looking through this thread…

I think it is inappropriate for people to make posts that minimize an issue a user has filed as a bug report. Someone probably finds an issue frustrating or at least believes in what they are filing. It isn’t really appropriate for other users to chime in that they think a bug shouldn’t be filed, or that it exists but no big deal. I personally think it’s against the community rules.

I feel uncomfortable with the open bug reporting here. This may be wrong, but I am perceiving that it may lead to occasionally overly defensive responses from the vuo team, as well as sometimes muddying the point of the original bug filing. It is often easier to respond to criticism in a constructive way when there isn’t an audience.

I think it is inappropriate

Bodysoulspirit's picture
Submitted by

I think it is inappropriate for people to make posts that minimize an issue a user has filed as a bug report

You maybe / probably mean me there.

I never wanted to minimise your bug reports, when I said "true but not the worst" for example.
I meant "it's true that it's annoying" and for me the somehow related part with the code editor not being draggable is even worse, since I can't access the top part of the code.
Should probably have filed this in a new bug report instead.

English also is not my mother language, so somehow I'm sorry if things come out differently than meant.

Regarding the part where I said I don't always upload what to me seems smaller bugs, that was just a personal comment, and I don't think it should (or does) minimise how the team handles bug reports.

And for bug reports to be open, I think A) it allows other users to be aware of limitations and known bugs, B) prevent multiple users from uploading the same bug over and over and C), allow users to help the Vuo team on trying to debug or find solutions before knowing if it's an actual bug.
This could spare the Vuo team some time doing other things, like resolving bugs or working on new features, I guess.

For example on your mouse bug, I just said I didn't encountered any bugs, which could then lead to hardware questions. I was not saying "it's not a bug", I was asking more for more information.

But again, this is all my personal opinion.

And if you want a bug to be private, I guess you can always send it by email to the team directly.

It is frustrating to try to

George_Toledo's picture
Submitted by

It is frustrating to try to execute an idea and find there are impediments built into the system.

I find reporting bugs to various companies to generally be a positive experience for all parties, with this being an exception.

If you spend weeks, months, more, doing something in a system and hit against a wall from a bug or feature implementation decision, and then have to be drawn into justifying your problem to outside parties over and over…well, it gives me anxiety about something that is already giving difficulty and it feels like another user belittling the problem. Suddenly everything is drowning in meta discussion.

If a company wants to ignore user feedback that’s their prerogative, but I dislike the creation of a system structured so that group think can pull things to more extreme perspectives.

I don’t think posts from

George_Toledo's picture
Submitted by

I don’t think posts from other users should effect bug reports either, but it clearly did when the tap event bug was recently closed without even asking for additional info from me first, due to posts from other users within the thread and in outside threads. The issue is still there, the bug was improperly closed.

Are you sure you're not the

Bodysoulspirit's picture
Submitted by

Are you sure you're not the one creating extra problems and meta discussions here ?
It's a forum and a community, so of course you are welcome to mention your feelings about stuff, but if you are allowed to, please allow me to do the same.

I've been here for years on a weekly, if not daily basis, and have almost never encountered anyone arguing over discussions or bug reports.
All I got there was help from other users, or "thank you's" for the help I provided or tried to provide.

One of the last "harsher" discussion I remember here, was with Vade.
Vade and yourself seem to be some skilled users. You guys tend to have a bigger understanding of things going on under the hood on a code level, which is cool.
But I also think you seem to tend to want to try to push your personal skills and ideas into a whole community.
Martinus Magneson is also one of those skilled users, but always acts with respect.

There are many things I would like to see in Vuo, many things I don't understand why the team make some decisions, the lack of some basic features or even modern advanced AI things like ones, and while I admire your will to open up discussions about it, and the will to solve some of them, I don't understand why on some posts you act with respect, and for some other posts you get more unfriendly.
I got it, we can all loose some patience, but maybe posting that much bug reports one after the other, you will encounter delays in the team's answers.

I came to Vuo many years ago to be able to make screensavers, it was on the roadmap.
Years later we got that, but now they're not code-signed, so not really shareable.
Probably I should back then have learned to code myself, so I could by now either code some screensavers, or bring my skills to Vuo to help code-signing.

Vade also had some big ideas for Vuo, and left I guess. He had a project to create a software on his own, which sounded cool and nice too ! But last time I checked, it wasn't released.
By that I mean it's easy to come with ideas and things to improve, but it should always come with respect for the huge work other people have been achieving already.
And while in some posts you mention that, in other posts you seem to forget that.
After all, it's the Team's software also.
When I want to write something I'm upset or sad about, I also always remember the team's comment about how they fund Vuo. Mostly free time.

So now I use Vuo for what it already allows me to do, with some frustrations, but also with joy for the things it brings.
And I try to improve it with my basic skills by sharing some nodes.

Again, I should probably also talk more about what frustrates me in Vuo, but will try to always do but still in a chilling way.
Not sure what the rest would bring.

Yes, I am sure I am not the

George_Toledo's picture
Submitted by

Yes, I am sure I am not the one adding meta conversation to someone’s bug report that the original reporter finds unhelpful. I think your comments violate community guidelines, and take the original bug report even further off topic.

I think that filing bug reports is not usually met with lectures from people who I don’t know, completely unsolicited, and after being told that it is causing additional anxiety and contributing to a lack of clarity about the bug. I think that level of outside input may be appropriate if a topic is opened for discussion.

My bug report is about the tooltips. I wished to file a bug about it, and I don’t think it is appropriate for another member to challenge the validity of the bug. The bug was actually accepted I might add. I wish to discuss the proposed solution, because I didn’t actually have to commit the user interaction that would cause a tooltip to render, as I understand it. Secondly, I think there is functionality in being able to see the tooltip when you actually trigger it, that is not desirable to lose.

edit:

I find the “liking” of the off topic lecturing by a vuo team member to be very offensive.

I also think that a post from another member that wades into also insulting friends of mine is far off topic, and a very surprising thing to encounter when making a bug report.

If someone told me my

George_Toledo's picture
Submitted by

If someone told me my comments were unhelpful to them and actually causing them anxiety I would stop at that point and not continue to browbeat and lecture for several more posts. I can be opinionated or longwinded, or whatever, but when it comes to someone having a problem with programming or design I try to be helpful if I can.

I don’t try to pour gasoline on the fire, come into a conversation gaslighting someone by saying their problem doesn’t matter, drifting into comments negatively characterizing their friends, or everything else under the moon that is completely irrelevant to the original topic, etc, and I think that’s a good guideline in general.

George, I think the problem

Bodysoulspirit's picture
Submitted by

George, I think the problem here is you're both being somehow rude, while playing the victim.

You want to be able to tell your feelings, without others being able to say anything :)

You came here back to Vuo after what feels like a long period of absence, and in your first comments your talked about "some people putting efforts into making a logo uglier then it was before" etc.
There I felt personally attacked, while I suggested a Vuo redesign, not only for the logo, but also for the nodes (which many parts of my ideas where used by the team for the nodes).
And while you may think design is not important in a software nowadays, it's "just" your opinion, that is not more or less valid or important than someone else's one who might think it is.
I just didn't caught up upon that, because I'm not the kind of person to like to argue, I just thought "let's be wise, crawl above that and forget it".

Then I still tried to discuss things with you, answered some of your questions and came up with some answers for which you thanked me for, and now you're being rude, saying I'm somehow trying to minimise your bug reports, and saying I'm the one being rude, although I tried to excuse myself just before that.

And now I said I'd would stop writing, but you keep coming with the same thing again.

Come on, we're adults, I got over the design part, please forget the comments I made for which I excused myself.

So I'm sorry if I said anything that you didn't like, end of discussion no ?

I was not going to respond on

George_Toledo's picture
Submitted by

I was not going to respond on this and just flag it, but since the discussion is already at this point… I want to respond directly to a matter raised. This situation in this thread sucks, but it feels better to state this.

My point was that matters of style are debatable whereas levels of core functionality (aka can something actually do opencv? can you actually control colors with point info? can you actually control the background color? etc)…are much less debatable. They either exist or they do not.

It has been my observation in working professionally on many software projects that people who do not accomplish much with a product often spend endless amounts of time hypothesizing about style level issues. Of course good design matters. And that usually happens through revision.

A related point was that the concerns of someone attempting to use a system for professional activities are different than someone who is just exploring or amateur. That doesn’t make one more valid than the other, but a system which gives both perspectives equal weight - someone trying to pay their bills by using the system for professional endeavors vs someone doodling (and I do plenty of doodling myself)…that decision to give equal weight to both problem contexts will directly correlate with the makeup of the resulting community.

I think that is a very helpful comment to make both to the vuo team as well as to other members, regardless of whatever level of skill they are at. People are free to disagree with that. But I didn’t appreciate the way those comments were taken at the time, and I still don’t. The points I attempt to make as far as issues like that go are in good faith, and not even necessarily always directly of personal concern.

And again, I think people

Bodysoulspirit's picture
Submitted by

And again, I think people should be welcome to ask questions and make comments about functionalities like the ones you raise here. I would love OpenCV, 4D points to colours sounds great, the background color, I'd love to change that (I even submitted the feature request back then), etc.
But I still don't understand why others shouldn't be able to share their thoughts about it too.

And I also think that up to some threshold point, your comment about professionals caring less about design, but more about functionality is true.
Even though I think the more a tool is aimed towards artists, designers etc, people whose work are of "visual" nature, the more they will care more about it.
But that's not so much the point here.

I can apologise for things I've said that could have "hurt" someone, but on a fair adult-level discussion, I hope the other person can also do their part.

  • So you made comments about design, that for me sounded pejorative back then, or sound rude sometimes, and yet you say it was well intended.

  • Here some comments of mine sounded pejorative to you or your bug reports, and yet I say they were well intended.
    And as you indirectly mentioned me here, I gave a first answer with apologies.

So in the end it's about the same thing it seems.

But yet we either let it escalate and argue - or we try to keep it chill.
We either suggest and ask for stuff, ask about why's, or we try to impose things.
We either discuss about things - or we flag, report and block...

I don't mean we should be all Teletubbies under some sunny skies here, but we might as well just keep it cool.

So ok, again, message received about the bug reports, and sorry for my part.